Panorama Photo

Such a great Pano.. But.. Why the left building? Without it's clearly four Stars, but it's too strong at the introduction from the Pano..

greetings Seb

@ Sebastian,

So you call my pano 'great' and then you disqualify it to trash because of the building. Unbelievable! Poor people here.

To be clear: this is part I 240°of 326° that starts at the building at left and will be followed by part II ending at the building at right. I show the building, which obscures 34° of the full 360°, because I consider it as an essential element of the visual experience.

Given the continuous ABUSE of the rating system by some of you to disqualify good work, I will no longer rate your pano if you skip mine for no fundamental reason. If something is wrong with my pano then of course I accept but if everything is OK I see this as disrespectful.

I didn't direspect.. I respected your Pano and in my opinion the Building Is Not needed.. Cant unterstand why you are hating me now in that way.. If i would disrespect the Pano, i have been gone over without any comment.. But Photography Is art and there are always different Opinions.. For me its disrespectful when you did not accept another opinion..

One of my Last Panos was skipped by some peoples while its a City Pano or because of some slope Lines that did not exist in my opinion.. But.. Thats ok.. Thats the way this Site works since Long years.. Don't understand your troubles..

greetings Seb

@Sebastian, I too consider photography as art and I will never disqualify someone's pano because of a building or a tree or whatever I don't like, but I do if the pano shows deficiencies. this pano is the first continuous view from, by the way, a private location so you should at least appreciate what I show and with high quality! I put hours of work into it and I am very proud about the result.
I am shocked with all this and that you even do not use this opportunity to correct yourself. I don't dispute you are a bad photographer, on the contrary, but this is shameful.

Nun schreibe ich auf Deutsch damit mich niemand falsch versteht..

Ich ärgere mich sehr das ich von Ihnen hier ständig beschimpft werde. Ich respektiere ihren Arbeitsaufwand, das gelungene Stitchergebnis, gute Schärfe und ein gutes Panorama.. Aber aus ästhetischen Gründen finde ich den Beginn des Panos sehr schlecht geeignet.. Ich werde mich auch nicht korrigieren, weil das meine Meinung ist.. Einige andere haben wahrscheinlich das gleiche gedacht und haben kommentarlos weiter geklickt.. Denn mindestens 20-30 aktive Mitglieder haben ja scheinbar ihr Panorama nicht bewertet.. Denn so ist das Bewertungssystem eben seit Jahren.. Entweder einem gefällt alles, dann gibt es vier Sterne.. Wenn eben nicht dann gibt es eine Enthaltung.. Ob das perfekt Is weiß ich nicht, es obliegt mir auch nicht das zu entscheiden..

Ich finde es aber sehr daneben das sie mich hier ständig beschimpfen. Jeder von uns hier kennt das wenn er sehr viel Arbeit in ein Projekt steckt und dann nicht den erwarteten Applaus bekommt.. Aber das gehört nun mal dazu, denn nicht alle Meinungen sind gleich.. Und das sind auch meine letzten Worte zu diesem Thema.

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Now I write in German so no one misunderstands me ..
I am very annoyed that I am constantly berated by you here. I respect their effort, the successful stitch result, good sharpness and a good panorama .. But for aesthetic reasons, I think the beginning of the Panos very badly suitable .. I will not correct myself, because that's my opinion .. Some others probably have the same thought and have clicked without comment .. For at least 20-30 active members have apparently not evaluated their panorama .. Because the rating system is just for years .. Either you like everything, then there are four stars .. If not then there is an abstention .. Whether the perfect Is I do not know, it is not up to me to decide that ..

But I find it very wrong that they insult me here constantly. Every one of us knows this when he puts a lot of work into a project and then does not get the expected applause .. But that's part of it, because not all opinions are the same.
These are my last words on this topic

Sebastian

Mentor, I must support Sebastian here.

In my opinion he has an objective and fully ok reservation for not finding the pano perfect, and he communicated it in a fully ok way. Absolutely no reason to call it disrespektful. BR Jan.

@Sebastian
It is the first time I expressed my displeasure against you and you started this polemic. If you dislike the building well move that part out of the screen, as simple as that. What a shame!

Congratulations Mentor to your 100th pano posting ! you built a nice portfolio.

The pano is crisp clear and technically without any flaw. But there is always more than the sum of the technical aspects and that is exactly what Sebastian was trying to explain. His comments, in my mind, make totally sense, were not offending at all and gave an idea to make things better.
You should accept constructive criticism. If I would receive criticism or an idea for improvement, I would always be thankful.

So it looks like you got caught on the wrong foot :-)

@Jan, if someone begins with I repeat: "such a great pano" and then disqualifies, or this person don't know what he said or is paranoid.

When the second part will be posted with the building at right, you will see the symmetry and probably recognise that this is the right way to create a pano that reflects how someone experiences this view from level 21.
Then I will delete my portfolio if this unprofessional discussion or disqualifying go on.

@Hans-Jurgen, sure go on by following the stupidity of others.
And to make things better by cutting off the building. Do you really think I have not thought about this? It is only a second and the thing is cut off. Of course I tested this and concluded the building at both sides is the right way to create a reality experience. You will see the symmetry soon.

I'm sure you thought about it ...

I don't mind the beginning. Personally I don't think it would be better without the building. Perhaps the start creates an expectation that the pano might end in equally dramatic manner. Which it does not. Either way I find it a very good pano. Hey that's just my opinion!

I don't want to get involved in the rest of the argument! Cheers,

@Christoph, you mentioned it already before that you feel annoyed looking to my panos, so I am not at all surprised that you won't rate it. Similar with Dieter Leimkotter and few other people here who stubbornly refuse to rate. Narrow-minded people in my view.

@Augustin, thx that is fair. Concerning the end, the pano is part 1 of 2 and part 2 will end in the same manner as part 1 started. It was just not possible to integrate without errors because of the different location of the camera.

Werter Mentor,
nachdem du mich persönlich ansprichst sehe ich mich gezwungen, in die Diskussion mit einzusteigen.

Zunächst einmal empfehle ich dir, die Diskussion auf eine sachliche Ebene zurückzuführen. Kritik, wenn Sie hier geäußert wird, betrifft generell die Bilder und nicht die Photographen. Die Art und Weise, wie jemand ein Bild beurteilt, bestimmt jeder selbst. Ich selbst freue mich auch über kritische Kommentare, führen die doch dazu, das eigene Arbeiten zu überdenken und sich weiterzuentwickeln. Finde ich die Kritik gerechtfertigt, dann setze ich die Anregungen um. Bin ich anderer Meinung, dann nicht.

Dein Bild ist in meinen Augen technisch perfekt. Aber auch ich hadere mit dem linken Teil, dem Gebäude. Wie jedes Panorama beginnen wir bei der Betrachtung ganz links. Und hier wirkt mir das Gebäude als zu wuchtig. Andererseits liefert es den Grund, warum es nicht weiter nach links geht, es begrenzt das Bild. Meiner Meinung nach hätte ein Bildschnitt weiter rechts, so dass vom Gebäude nur ein kleiner Teil noch zu sehen ist, ausgereicht. Wenn du hingegen meinst, das Gebäude müsse in so präsenter Form in das Bild eingebracht werden, dann argumentiere dafür und beleidige nicht diejenigen, die anderer Meinung sind.

Warum ich mich bei der Wertung enthalten habe, erkläre ich gerne. Es ist das Motiv, das mich nicht anspricht. Es hat in meinen Augen irgendwie keinen Höhepunkt, keine besondere Stimmung, keine Besonderheit. Ich denke so hat jeder seine eigene Sichtweise, wir sind keine Jury, die hier nach festgelegten Kriterien entscheidet. Der eine lehnt Kopfüber-Panoramen generell ab, der andere Drohnenaufnahmen. Ich finde das zwar bedauerlich, aber jedem sei seine persönliche Meinung gestattet.

Und nochmals, die Kritik gilt dem Bild, nicht dem Photographen. Viele deiner Werke schätze ich und bewerte und kommentiere diese auch gerne.

Ich empfehle dir dringend, den Kommentar, in dem du vielen Mitgliedern unserer Community vorwirfst, engstirnig zu sein, zu versachlichen.

Herzliche Grüße,
Dieter

@Mentor - I could say more, but just one point - maybe this is a misunderstanding. Could you please explain why you think that Seb has "disqualified to trash"? I don't see this. Seb has just absented from rating and just given a comment. "No rating" is totally different from giving a rating with zero stars which we do only in extreme cases.

Apart from that I really appreciate your contribution here, which does not mean that I have to endorse every single pano.

Regards Martin

@Martin, this voting system has totally degraded to an all or nothing poll based on no other criteria than I like it or not, which is a pure sentimental observation. In that sense, I consider voting as saying: I appreciate your work or not. If Sebastian - by the way, I appreciate his photographical work (as well as Dieters) but will no longer rate it given his sudden stubborn attitude against me - starts by saying: "what a great pano" and then stumbles on the building, which does nothing to the quality or beauty of the view, then I consider this as a narrow-minded, malicious, attitude. Same with other people who openly express their annoyance when they see again a pano from here. All my panos are quite differentiated and I am proud I did a 100 with a very small footprint.

@Dieter, what do you mean by: " this pano has no climax, nothing special " so a reason not to vote? This is simply the first continuous 240° view from Waterfront, taken from 3 locations. All my previous panos from here were fragmented views.

Mutig und gelassen! OK!

@Walter. Great!

@Christoph, sorry but I didn't start this madness and I think it is up to you and the others who liked to disqualify my work. My garden will come back later on because I found better photographs and now have PTGui to stitch more precisely compared to Hugin. In my opinion this rating system is childish, serves nothing and should be abolished.

I would like to thank the audience that voted positively for this unique pano that mimics a reality experience from floor 21 of the building!
This is part 1 of 2. The second part, which is the S-SW view, ends with the building at right so that symmetry is obtained. If it was possible I would have constructed the total 326° in 1 pano but given the different position of the camera, resulting in angle differences, this was not possible without error with PTGuiPro.
Although I have still a backlog of more than 30 panos, I will stop posting after the second part, because of the really ridiculous, shameful behaviour of several of the posters here that find pleasure to disqualify good work.

@Mentor, this is really a pity because we have thoroughly enjoyed your panoramas and your contribution. I would have rather celebrated your 100th panorama than having this discussion.

Unfortunately we have a totally different perception of what is happening here. I have seen nobody whose acts I would describe as shameful, ridiculous, stubborn, disqualifying or malicious. I have also seen nobody say these words to you. I fear this is all a big unfortunate misunderstanding on your side.

Best,
Martin

Hi Mentor. If I can give you a hint, take a break of reflection for a few days.
Then review the discussion with more calmness. I'm sure you would not repeat some parts of your comments.

Hi Martin, Giuseppe, I am quite sure that the majority of the posters - even you both - are sensistive to getting the 4*. Because the rating system has degraded to all or nothing it means: I appreciate or not. When someone starts with: "great pano" following by saying no 4*, this is not only a contradiction but also a straight disqualification. The original, quite professional rules of this website to rate a pano are a lot more than the over-simplistic, childish in fact, all or nothing as of today. Because it has degraded to this foolish status, I simply use it to tell: I have seen your pano and appreciate your work under condition however that it is without serious defects. If that person never rates back, then I will stop rating his work because this doesn't work unilaterally. It should be far better that this all or nothing system is abolished and that only comments can be done. Saying: great pano but without the building I would like it even more is someting different than great pano but no stars.

Your panorama work is really great, Mentor - the terrific discussion would have been avoidable with a little more sovereignty!! I recommend you - so my own experience - to rethink ... present your works because you love them yourself . . . and without any expectation. After much frustration here on p-p and a-p, I have made this to my "Maxime" . . . even though I fail again, sometimes ;-)!!

Cheers, Hans-Jörg

@Hans-Jörg, thx, I always appreciate the stimulating comments from a great photographer.

@Mentor: Durch Deine Waterfront-Panoramen mit den gut recherchierten und auch engangierten Beschreibungen hattest Du meine Sympathie gewonnen. Diese ist aber durch die Art und Weise, in der Du hier bei diesem Panorama argumentiert hast, ins Wanken geraten. Und durch die unsachlichen Kommentare, die Du bei den Panoramen der Kollegen, die Dir hier in ihren durchaus sachlichen Kommentaren nicht 4 Sterne gegeben hatten, hast Du sie verspielt, wobei auch eine Rolle Deine teilweise anbiedernden Kommentare bei den Panoramen der Kollegen, die Dir hier 4 Sterne gegeben hatten, gespielt haben.

Dear Heinz,

I feel very sorry you are shaken by this but that wasn’t my intention.

I prepared this pano months ago and kept it for my 100th pano celebration. It is a first in the sense that I succeeded to stitch parts from 3 separate locations without visible error while I previously posted partial views. Also, I wanted to create an experience as if the viewer is on the 21st floor. Because 34° of the full 360° is obscured by the blue building, I thought and still think it is very opportune to include a little of the building at the beginning of the first part and at the end of the second part just like I experience this every day when I look out of the windows. The complete pano should have been judged once the second part was posted because then the symmetry would become visible. I think I communicated this clearly.
With this knowledge, would ‘you’ feel happy if someone starts with: “great pano” and then openly disqualifies it with no stars (= the same as a pano full of mistakes) because he doesn’t like the building, which by the way can easily be moved out of the screen without losing anything of the view itself. Because this kind of disqualification is possible with this oversimplistic rating system, which I consider as totally inferior, I saw and still see this as a total lack of respect. I am still very upset by this believe me. When I look to someone’s pano, I simply click the 4* from sympathy if it is done without serious error and that is how it should be used. Esthetics of course are important but this pano is especially intended to document the reality and not a souped up picture like many here try to do.

Concerning my remarks on recent panos. Can you show me where I was unobjective? I was very critical yes and especially for those who found the pleasure to disqualify my work, I simply mimicked their own behaviour or repeated their words (here above) to show how insulting this was to me. Obviously you see this differently because you are a bit of a patriarch of this website but that is how I still feel this unjustified situation.

I don’t know if I ever will continu with this and in the meantime play my guitar.
Thanks for your comment and the many very interesting discussions I enjoyed with you.

Nice regards,

Mentor